Just wondering what the best combo is for a quick turning set-up? For example you get roughly the same overall width out of a SixTrack and a BDS Dragon as you do out of a 215 and a minidub. Which of this would turn quicker? Or is it overall width that makes the difference anyway so there would be no difference? I’d actually be interested in the physics of it (or maybe that’s just too geeky!!)
Technically the narower the truck the quicker the turn. But its so small the difference you may not even notice. Ive been able to make big 12" wide decks very responsive by running softer bushings and using wedges. With indy trucks adding a flat washer under the main bushing (baseplate end) will raise the hanger angle even more giving more turn for the same amount of lean. I also often trim a bevel of the bottom of the main (baseplate end) bushing. This helps the hanger turn more progressively without bottoming out so much.
My pool and park setups are extreemly turny and reasonably loose. So I warn people when having a go in fast bowls because if your not use to this kind of setup it can be very dangerous. You need to be able to control death wobbles on big dropins. I find it equally as difficult to ride other peoples setups that dont turn.
Bottom line is that turnyness of wide trucks versus narrow trucks is pretty close. Also note that wedging reduces wheelbite. The soft Khiro wedge is slightly steeper than the standard tracker plastic wedge. I have a Khiro soft wedge on the front of nearly all my setups with a tracker wedge on the rear with wheelbases longer than 16". I even stack two of the Khiro’s up on the front of my slalom setup.
Well said Scott…the other factor is height…height of truck and height of set-up (riser) My favourite set-up at the moment is the best compromise of stability and turn I reckon…quarter inch risers, Khiro’d Indy 215’s with a Khiro wedged riser on the front -teamed with new school shaped tall wheels (63 or 64mm) on the quad 11".
Low profile, progressive turn, fast and stable.
Bass, Scott put a large wedge on the front truck of my powell ripper, it gave the 215 indy more turn action and still have a slightly tighter set up than Scotts. We tried a wedge front and back to the 165s on my BTS, with the results being far to much response and hard to control. I find that 215s, carve well but catch my kick turns. The 165s are good all rounders, but harder work in a backside carve.
I wedge front and back on a 15" wheel base and love it. Getting on other peoples boards takes a bit of used too but I reckon you can train yourself to handle the turn.
I have two identical wheelbase boards. One is a 8.5 x 35 deathbox set up with 149 indys and soft red bushings, front truck looser than back but both cranked reasonably firmly so that the truck itself is stable - always let the bushing do the work. The other is a 11 wide BDS Quadplane set up with 215 indys. Bushings are yellow medium. Front truck is on a wedge riser. Front truck is set up a little loose, back truck is cranked fairly firmly. Subjectively and in reality the BDS is the more turny board - it is also much more responsive to input and on top of that it is much much much more stable. ON kick turns - especially on the coping and on grinds it is also much easier than the 149s on and off the top. The physics is simple, wide truck, wide board, more leverage. More levereage - more response. THE BDS has concave and wheel wheels so wheel bite is not a problem. I’m about to set up a big foot and I’ll try black (hard) bushings in the back truck - because of all the leverage in the tail. There is one penalty - weight, but I’m getting used to that and used the right way I’m finding that such a board developes its own momentum and can be quite effortless.
Further thought - in physics terms. Think of a go kart - wide track and very short wheelbase - a square plan. Now thats turning in motor car terms. But you need Grip of course. Performance cars have wider tracks and wheels out at the four corners - progressive stable and fast cornering. Drag Car, not really wanting to turn - highly undesireable in fact - long wheelbase, very very narrow track. So I’m not entirely sure about Scotts remarks re narrow trucks turning harder. Physics and theory tells me not so and empirical reality - riding the things has confirmed also for me that this is not so. This may have something to do with the design of the narrower independant trucks which are slightly different I notice in geometric terms to the 215s. The legacy of kickflips?!
I run a few sets of indies 149, 169 & 215 all wedged in the front with various BDS wheels, dub cons, dragons, mini dubs and winged skulls.
Currently loving my quad 11 with 215 and mini dubs. A few young dudes rode it at Torquay and were amazed how well it carved.
Narrowest deck I ride is 10.5" with 215 and winged skulls, I like the feel of the 215 and run the front way loose and the back tad tighter, seems to come off the coping better and does not tail whip.
Might be just me but i think the width of the wheels has more effect on turnability than the width of the truck. i find the 215 with mini dubs (10.68")turn better than 149/ dragon(10.16") combo.
Play around until you find what works best for you.
Yes Fletch, I’m with you. Same set up - though I don’t think I’ve got the guts to go the hard wheels like you. I’ll stay with 90A mini dubs. But I’m stoked with this board and set up. This board is actually helping me to improve my skating rather than hindering it. Its a great carver and kick turner and an enthuisastic kid (who was totally hot) tried mine at chelts and seriously wanted one.
Big Board, Big Trucks Big Wheels = BIG SMILES
Most if not all the old school bowl/pool moves were invented or perfected on 10" decks
Fletch and Michael, I have recently got a Quad 11 with 215s and put on 56mm cocroaches to lower centre of gravity and avoid wheel bite, but I am finding this very hard to get used to. I was running kryptos on the long board. Do you think a change to mini dubs might make it more comfortable? Which way do you place the angled riser under front truck?
Thin end of wedge toward nose maddy…will help, so will a slightly taller wheel…62mm or more. I will bring some khiro’s for you to play with next MOSS sess.
Maddy - thats a big change - longboard to QP 11. Soft wheels to hard. Suggest you just keep riding. I reckon Chelts is the place to go to make the change and work on the technique. As far as wheels go Braden gave me a set of mini dubs of 90A hardness - I rode softer Krypto Hawians and powell bombers before. These mini dubs are just right and I have fallen in love with them. Maybe order a set from Braden. Less grip than softer wheels but not rock hard so you can get used to them and the extra width definitely helps in the grip department. From here I can see myself getting to even harder wheels without the fear of disaster. I don’t get wheel bite with these wheels but I’m only a little guy and I ride with at least the back truck set reasonably firm. Bigger boy riders who can exert a lot more leverage on the trucks might need to play with the truck bushings riser pad scenario a bit to get it right. A harder bushing in the back truck could be something you could experiment with. Fletch has the expertise to help you out here.
BDS Minidub = best oldschool wheel ive ever riden.
original red - 97a
original green - 95a (my current ride)
ultrathane - I want some
Blackdeath - fuckn fast - I got hurt real bad wasnt my fault-slippery bowl.
Mellow yellow - I want some
BDS full dubcon - my second favourite oldschool wheel.
Powell and Abec11 make good oldschool wheels too.
The bds black 90a’s are grouse I reckon, next step up are the ultrathanes 92a, faster yet almost as grippy.
They will be in the next shipment.
Will get my hands on these too:
99a almost as hard as black death yet slightly grippier!
Thanks for all that info Braden, Scott and Michael. Had a good roll yesterday and loosened off the trucks 3 times. It made a huge difference. I also agree about more time on the board Michael, going to a pool deck is almost a different style of skating.
Braden I am hearing so many great raves about the mini dubs. Please hold a set of 90a’s for me when your shipment arrives, including some rockin rons.
Would you mind bringing a wedge riser for me on Tues.
Thanks once again for the helpful info guys
Two sets of those wheels please Braden. At any price !!!
F#%k yeah! Tone. If you are talking about the black 90A mini dubs, they seem to be a fast as hell when you want them to be - but you can still put a bit of back foot power into things (not too much mind you). Its really helping me cause surfing has made me over use the back foot a lot skating. Also been thinking about our wheel talk the other night Braden and your absolutely right. Stuff the Tunnel rocks - flat backs nah. Dragons/dubcons in ultrathane for the BFG 2. Whats Daz got - are they the old yellow 92A or are they even harder - no longer available no doubt. Pity the ultrathanes are white (dyeable?). I so like coloured wheels. So hold my rockin rons for the BDS shipment and hopefully there is something there just right.
Ultrathanes are the go my man…a little rare though at the moment.
Extremely responsive to dye.
@Tone yeh! see through wheeeeeeeellss man. VERY fast and VERY hard!
Please keep me a set of the red jubju mini dubs for my GH11 maybe some ultrathanes as well
I agree with Skoot Mini dubs are an awesome wheel. ive had the red 97a and the green 95a but i love my BD’s although like you have had some close slidey calls in smooth bowls.