St Kilda Marina Reserve Bowl

#1

FYI I have been told that this is the best place to post this stuff!!!

Just thought some people would like to know.

Dear Recipient,

I am writing to you to as you have expressed an interest in being kept up to date on the progress with the development of the Marina Reserve Masterplan.

I wish to advise you that the Council considered a report on the draft Marina Reserve Masterplan at its meeting of the 28 June 2010 and made the following resolution:

That Council:

2.1 Receives the draft Marina Reserve Masterplan as attached (Attachment 1).

2.2 Recognises the potential for change to the draft masterplan specifically in regard to the type of skateable infrastructure including a bowl, the number and layout of car parking spaces, the need for and level of lighting, and the location of toilet facilities.

2.3 Invites public submissions on the draft Marina Reserve Masterplan and those items in 2.2 for a period of 3 weeks from 5 July to 26 July 2010.

2.4 Considers submissions from the public at its meeting of the 9 August 2010, prior to adopting a final version of the Marina Reserve Masterplan at a following meeting.

2.5 Acknowledges the input and contribution made by members of the community to date.

The report and attachments can be viewed at portphillip.vic.gov.au/3757.htm

To assist you in reviewing the draft masterplan and preparing a submission, the following opportunities are available:

· Visit haveyoursayatportphillip.net.au/ to access the draft masterplan along with other key documents, images and an online submission form. This web page also has links to Council reports and the survey data collected to date.

· Visit the Council’s ASSIST counters at St Kilda, Port Melbourne or South Melbourne Town Halls to view a copy of the draft masterplan and council report.

Attend the information session at Council Chamber, St Kilda Town Hall, Wednesday 14 July 2010, 7 pm. The design consultant will present the draft masterplan and answer questions. Please RSVP to ASSIST with your full contact details via email rsvp@portphillip.vic.gov.au or phone 9209 6777 by 13 July 2010.
· Meet with a Council Officer at the St Kilda Town Hall to discuss aspects of the draft masterplan. Please contact ASSIST or Laraine Elliott on 9209 6609 to arrange a meeting time.

Submissions can be made using the online or hard copy submission forms, alternatively you can send in your comments via letter or email.

The closing date for submissions is Monday 26 July 2010.

Send in your submission:

Post: Draft Marina Reserve Masterplan

C/- City of Port Phillip

Private Bag No 3

PO St Kilda Victoria 3182 or

Email: MarinaReserve@portphillip.vic.gov.au or

Visit: your local Town Hall ASSIST counter to pick up a hard copy submission form or drop in your written submission in an envelope clearly marked ‘Marina Reserve Masterplan Submission’.

Please feel free to contact Anita Lange on 9209 6815 if you have any further questions.

Please advise if you wish to be removed from this data base.

Laraine Elliott | Business Support Officer

Infrastructure Services | City of Port Phillip

Phone: 03 9209 6609

Email: lelliott@portphillip.vic.gov.au

#2

Just checked the council site and it looks like they are veering away from a bowl and more towards a street scape lay out, noting that Geelong waterfront site is a model that they like.

This from the Port Phillip Council site

Q. Why isn’t a skate bowl shown in the draft masterplan?
The draft masterplan was developed from the consultation process that ran from February to May 2010 and has taken account of all the constraints and opportunities of the site, the range of community feedback to date, the site’s location on the foreshore and the need to take account of state government policy on the use of foreshore land.
The issue about the form of the skateable infrastructure has been one of several controversial issues.
The Council has been clear from the start of developing the Marina Reserve Masterplan that the skateable infrastructure would be part of a shared area that provides a good space for skaters of all ages and all abilities. In its resolution of 18 December 2008 Council resolved to “provide a local skate park for use by all ages and skill levels”.
In this manner the consultant for the Marina Reserve Masterplan, Convic, designed the space on the Geelong foreshore area for a range of skaters and other users. See aila.org.au/victoria/awards2 … ongYAA.htm
The consultation process also led to recognition that designing a stand alone skate park that does not allow for multi-users would not meet the test of being a coastal dependant use and would therefore not be consistent with the Victorian Coastal Strategy and not likely to be given Coastal Management Act consent, which is required for the project to proceed.
The consultant in the draft masterplan report addressed this issue in the report at Section 5.10 and commented on the wide cross section of views about what form of skateable infrastructure should be provided, including whether a competition standard bowl should be provided. The form of skateable infrastructure is limited by the footprint (i.e. how much of the site can be dedicated to skating infrastructure), the sight lines (to make sure that any new infrastructure does not sit too high on the site) and the geo- technical conditions (as the site will probably not support deep excavations as it is a fill site and has a high water table).
Whether or not a skate bowl should be included in the skateable infrastructure is an issue that the Council is keen to hear community feedback on before it makes it decision on the final masterplan.

#3

Well we all need to get onto it before they finish the masterplan!!!

#4

RIGHT WE NEED AS MANY PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED, IF WE ALL WRITE IN AND PUT WHAT WE THINK IT NEEDS IN BY 13TH JULY

You are welcome to attend the meeting and speak about your submission if you wish. Please visit portphillip.vic.gov.au/askin … etings.htm for more information on the Council Meeting process.

Information session: Council Chamber, St Kilda Town Hall, 14 July 2010, 7 pm.
An information session will be held, where the design consultant will present the draft masterplan and answer questions. Please RSVP to ASSIST with your full contact details via email
rsvp@portphillip.vic.gov.au or phone 9209 6777 by 13 July 2010.

You can find information on the progress of the review of the draft masterplan at www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/haveyoursay

If you have any questions please feel free to contact ASSIST on 90206777, or Laraine Elliot on 9209 6609.

#5

Mate, Have sent email to council few days ago awaiting response.

#6

Good work,

I have just spoken with Viv from Simply Skateboarding and she does a lot of work with a few councils.

She is going through the information and is going to draft a letter as a council skate expert (having done a lot of work with them) highlighting the problems and lack of inclusivity the design would result in.

She is also putting together a list of different angles to approach the issue with.

Sketch also had some good ideas as well

So we wont go down without a good fight!

The more people we can get on the same page the better.

#7

Put in submission, and RSVP’d.
See you all there!

#8

See you there Bernie I have RSVP as well

#9

Made request on on-line survey

#10

RSVP and come with the kids to St Kilda Town Hall, 14 July 2010, 7 pm!!!

Need you and your kids support

#11

The council have a set of criteria for the park. Perhaps we need to clarify our argument on why a bowl is an integral part of a park and it won’t exclude other users, it will provide ongoing value and will enhance the use of the park over the longer term, etc.

There also appears to be some issues with the geology of the site, a bowl may not be able to be dug into the site and they won’t want a raised one that will impact the aesthetics of the place - issues that might need to be considered when putting an argument for a bowl.

There might be value in getting together prior to Wednesday 14th so that we can ensure we have a coherent alternative, or addition, to put to council.

Box Hill Sunday morning perhaps?

#12

Sounds good I am catching up with Viv and Ash tonight so I can get some ideas from her as well.

#13

I had two long discussions yesterday. One with a councillor and one with a council officer. I just want to talk to a couple of others so we can get right to the crux of the important determining factors to so my submission can be targeted for best effect.

There will also be an opportunity to speak and present on 9/8/10 at Sth Melb Town Hall when it goes to a vote. A power point presentation is also a possibility on this day if it is arranged prior.

#14

That sounds great Wedge, the worst thing is I am in NZ at the start of August so I will have to see what I can do.

#15

What can you do to make a difference?

1. Make a submission and take note of the important points that are going to make a difference.
Lodge a submission to council at www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/haveyoursay
or send in your submission:
Post: Draft Marina Reserve Masterplan
C/- City of Port Phillip
Private Bag No 3
PO St Kilda Victoria 3182 or
Email: MarinaReserve@portphillip.vic.gov.au

2. Attend the information session at Council Chamber, St Kilda Town Hall, Wednesday 14 July 2010, 7 pm.

3. Speak at the Council meeting 9th August 2010 at South Melbourne Town Hall. Councillors will vote on the proposal at this meeting. It is also possible to present a Powerpoint at this meeting, but you must arrange this in advance with Anita Lange at Council on 9209 6777.

I have spoken to a councillor and a council officer and the situation is thus:
The site is on reclaimed land so they can only dig to certain depth before they hit sea water.
Council will only build the earth up to the same level as a mound already on the site (1.5 mtrs) so as to avoid blocking views.
The maximum depth is that is realistically achievable is 2.2 metres or 71/2 feet.
The current depth on the plans is approx .9 to 1.5 metres deep.
(A 71/2 foot bowl would be a nice thing on St Kilda foreshore.)

The following factors could stop a bowl or a skate park getting up on the site.

Factor 1. DSE (State Government) needs to approve any development on the foreshore and their policy is to only allow infrastructure for coast dependent activities
How to overcome this?
My arguments are:-
Skateboarding has close synergies with other board riding activities that are coastal dependant or are part of the sporting culture of the St Kilda foreshore, including; windsurfing, kite surfing, land kite boarding, surfing and skim boarding.
Riding a skateboard in a bowl is more akin to the above board riding activities that street skating.
I only subscribe to one skateboard magazine; “Concrete Wave Magazine”
Skate parks have been successful in providing good social and recreational outcomes in many coastal foreshore locations including; Geelong, Lorne, Maroubra, Bondi, Cairns and Venice Beach USA.

Factor 2. DSE’s policy also requires infrastructure not to be for the exclusive use one particular group.
How to overcome this?
The council’s argument is that the “incidental skate space” (street terrain) can be multi use as non-skaters can use it as seats when skaters are not using it.
My argument is that a bowl would be more inclusive, as many user groups would be catered for as detailed below.

Street Terrain
Skateboarders 12-16 years

Bowl
Skateboarders 12-16 years
Scooter riders 8-16 years
BMX riders 14-25 years
Mature age skateboarders 35-50 years (Unofficial supervision)
Family groups of skaters / scooter riders (parents and young children participating together)
(Unofficial supervision)
Roller skaters & bladers

Points for Council to consider in favour of including a bowl.

To maximize participation and longevity of the facility a dual depth bowl with a “waterfall” should be included in the “skateable infrastructure” area to complement the street terrain in the “incidental skate space” areas. Other skate bowls in Victoria are continuing to be well patronised many years after construction. These include Fitzroy (early 1990’s), Frankston (2006), Newport (2006), etc.
The deeper section of the dual depth bowl should be at least 2.2 metres deep to ensure as many user groups as possible are catered for.
A dual depth “waterfall” bowl also caters for beginners.
A bowl would give street skaters something to progress to.
Council would not like to build a facility that skaters became bored with.

#16

Thats great Wedge,

Dam good argument to put forward we will see you on Wed night @ St Kilda Town Hall

I much prefer a 71/2 foot bowl to a street course :smiling_imp:

#17

Is it also worth mentioning in the argument for the bowl, the tourist angle? For an area like St Kilda? it seems many, many Bondi tourists from interstate & international, English speaking or not, enjoy marvelling, watching, photographing the sessions in the bowl. This is of course in addition to the many tourists who go there to ride it. There’s always a crowd of all ages around the fence around the bowl.

#18

Yes Jackson, good points on the street theatre and tourism aspects. Both great benefits for the local business community and in sync with the St Kilda culture.

I spoke to one of the councillors again last night and there is hope yet for a competition depth bowl. They would simply need to lift the height limit by 1 metre to take the deep end from 2.2 to 3.2 metres. The concern that this would exclude some users can be addressed. Beginners & little kids on boards & scooters can use a dual depth bowl by starting in the shallow and rolling into the deep. Some mellowish transition in the shallow could make it user friendly for indemediates as well.

#19

Report on meeting last night.

We were presented with a draft master-plan for the foreshore upgrade, which includes a “skate area”, which is yet to have any detail design work.

The mayor told us that the current council had been elected with a mandate to build the skate park that was previously approved at Fitzroy St, on the foreshore. (and it happens to be not too far from the previous failed proposal for a foreshore skate park some 8 or 9 years ago, before the Fitzroy St site came up)

Plans for skate park are not set, but council will need lots of submissions (from us) recommending the inclusion of a bowl.

Some concerns raised by residents:

  • glare from skate park lighting at night (6pm - 9pm)
  • security
  • noise. (ie slap of skateboards - see my question below)
  • car parking (some want more others want less)
  • obstruction of view of bay (due to relocation of earth mound)
    Last two points are issues related to the development of the park, regardless of the skate facilities.

The issue about Coastal Usage rules imposed by DSE are expected to work against having a bowl, but if the council has enough evidence of demand for, and sound arguments as set out by Wedge in relation to including a wide number of users, then they should be able to lobby DSE (and possibly the minister).

Engineering issues for bowl relate to available depth, governed by height of earth mound, and sub-soil drainage conditions, which Convic should be able to solve. (the owner of Convic noted that they have not got the mandate to do the skate-park detail design work yet, but if and when they do, they now understand need for a useful bowl)

What I took from the meeting was the idea that Council want to do it, but they still need to get some of it past the residents and DSE, and they will need evidence in support of the case for a skatepark with a bowl, in the form of our submissions setting out the demand for and valid reasons for the skate-park including a bowl.

Submissions need to be in no later than 26 July 2010
Lodge a submission to council at www.portphillip.vic.gov.au/haveyoursay

See Wedge’s previous message for the points that the council needs to get.

Question on noise:
Does anyone know if bowl skating is quieter than street skating, and do we have any evidence of that? If yes, then we should include that point also.

#20

Don’t know if it means anything for your propsal but as a newbie to skating, by far I have found that Fitzroy (I guess because it only has a bowl and has lots of trees) and after that any other bowl are the most sociable and respectful places to skate.

As a parent of two little tackers I am blown away and always telling other parents how great the skate culture is. The patience, sharing, respect for other people and what they are trying to achieve and can do regardless of level and coaching at the bowls has been fantastic everywhere we have gone. Imagine a 43 year old guy rocking up looking like a Stormtrooper learning to skate at peak time Fitzroy and all the young guns making sure he gets a go, sharing tips, even telling him that pads are the way to go.

I guess because there is all that standing around watching provides an environment for a respectful culture.

I certainly do not get that same vibe at street parks such as Riverslide nor Prahran. At the non bowl parks my kids are always being told to hurry up and get out of the way as if their setting up for a run is of lesser importance.