St Kilda Marina Reserve Bowl

#21

Here are a couple of noise articles Bernie.

spausa.org/noise-skateparks.html
An excerpt from this

humankinetics.com/excerpts/e … -skatepark

" Noise

A social stigma often associated with public skateparks is that they are a wild and noisy place that not only can become an eyesore but can also contribute to neighborhood noise pollution. According to the official Web site of the Skatepark Association of the United States (SPAUSA), “a skatepark has no more noise than the ambient surrounding noise that exists in other parks, and is not nearly as noisy as a baseball park” (Skatepark Association of the United States, n.d.). The reality is that the majority of noise attributed to skateboards does not come from the act of riding the skateboard.

Most people’s experience with skateboarding noise is associated with the act of skateboarding across city sidewalks. The majority of this noise does not actually come from the wheels rolling across the surface of the concrete, but rather from the cracks in sidewalks and other rough surfaces and inconsistencies. In a 2001 study conducted by the Portland, Oregon, Office of Planning and Development Review, city noise control officer Paul Van Orden found that the impact of noise on skatepark neighbors could be minimized through adequate planning and design. Van Orden found that the sound of urethane wheels rolling across a smooth surface is not inherently noisy (Van Orden 2001). The loudest noises produced by skateboards typically come from hitting the nose and tail of the skateboard on the ground or from sliding and grinding the skateboard trucks across skatepark coping and ledges.

Skateboarders will ollie or pop their skateboards into the air by hitting the nose or tail on the ground in an effort to execute a variety of maneuvers. The instantaneous noise that is created from these pops can be compared with the sound of a baseball bat hitting a ball. The noise study conducted by the City of Portland found the noise levels for popping and ollieing to be at 65 to 71 decibels (at a distance of 50 feet [15.2 m]) and found the levels for grinds or slides to be at 54 to 63 decibels. According to Van Orden, a typical conversation occurs at 59 to 63 decibels, and background noise can usually mask the majority of the sound produced by skateparks. Interestingly, a similar study from an October 20, 2006 newsletter of the LifeTips Web site found the following: “One of the most common misperceptions about skate parks is that the noise created by their users will surpass code limits and upset the community. But the reality is quite different. In a recent study, it was found that peak skate park noise levels averaged 70 decibels from 50 feet away. In comparison, from the same 50 feet away a dishwasher and toilet produce comparable decibel levels. A football game produces 117 decibels, heavy traffic 85 decibels and a home refrigerator 50 decibels. All in all, a skatepark is no more noisy than similar recreation areas like a basketball court or children’s playground” (LifeTips 2006)."

And heres one form the hippies
sk8park.nimbincommunity.org.au/sk8noise.pdf

Actually its a full blown assessment of the park which tends to support the study above. Although it does suggest mitigation strategies.

I tried but can’t find the LifeTip newsletter mentioned, it comes up a lot when looking at noise. But I would suggest that the noise argument may not be useful with respect to a bowl. The street section will be there anyway so the addition or not of a bowl would be audio neutral.

Cheers

Tim

#22

Sk8Park is certainly no louder than the trams or traffic running up and down Fitzroy St?

#23

Tim,

Thanks for that evidence, will pass it on to Council.

#24

Hey Bernie,
you should also note that the Nimbin skatepark is a metal construction above ground. so its probably louder than a concrete inlaid construct.

#25

Sent to council…

As discussed, here is some links to reports on noise created by skating activity, to assist with answering the resident’s concerns raised last night in relation to such noise.

sk8park.nimbincommunity.org.au/sk8noise.pdf

spausa.org/noise-skateparks.html

Note that the Nimbin skate park is a metal construction above ground.
The SPUSA link reports noise level readings indicating that steel ramps are louder than a concrete inlaid construct.

Regards…

Thanks again Tim

#26

Bump!

We all want a Bowl… at St Kilda…so tell em!

Don’t forget… send submissions to City of Port Phillip before 26th July.
Thats 5 More working days til it is too late!

#27

YOU DON’T HAVE TO READ ALL THIS, JUST COPY, PASTE THEN EMAIL…

From: renton millar
Sent: Tuesday, 20 July 2010 10:46 PM
To:
Subject: A quick second to email this letter to help our skatepark cause…

hey,
if you guys could help us get a bowl at StKilda by taking a minute to cut and paste the below email to this address (MarinaReserve@portphillip.vic.gov.au), you will help us get a nice bowl on the water in Melbourne (at the moment its just a plaza, but we want some bowl elements as well… would be rad to have something like Bondi, or Marseille). the letter below was kindly written by Rob Francis.

thanks for your help
RM

Closing date is Monday 26/7/10.
It doesn’t matter where you live.
Put your name & mobile number at the bottom.

[i]MarinaReserve@portphillip.vic.gov.au

Subject: Submission re Proposed Marina Reserve Skate Park

To: Port Phillip Councillors and Council Officers

Dear All,

Re: Proposed St Kilda Skate Park.

I support the skate park proposal in principle, but believe a dual depth bowl with a minimum depth of 2.2 metres should be included in the skateable infrastructure area.
Further to this, St Kilda could build a world class competition facility by increasing the depth of a section of the bowl to 3.3 metres. Such a facility would not only serve a wide range of local user groups with a great place to skate, but it would engender a sense of community pride in knowing that St Kilda its skate park (and skaters) are among the best in the world. A dual depth bowl like this can cater for skill levels from young beginners on scooters through to advanced skaters.

With regard to DSE’s requirement that foreshore infrastructure fit with coastal activities I make the following points.
• Skateboarding has close synergies with other board riding activities that are coastal dependant or are part of the sporting culture of the St Kilda foreshore, including; windsurfing, kite surfing, wake boarding, land kite boarding, skim boarding and surfing. Skateboarding is a key part of Surfing Australia’s High Performance Training Program. surfingaustralia.com/news-details.php?id=641
• Riding a skateboard in a bowl is more akin to the above board riding activities that street skating.
• I only subscribe to one skateboard magazine; “Concrete Wave Magazine”. This name is testament to the synergy skateboarding has with the water.
• Skate parks have been successful in providing good social and recreational outcomes in many coastal foreshore locations including; Geelong, Lorne, Maroubra, Bondi, Cairns and Venice Beach USA.

With regard to DSE’s policy requiring infrastructure not to be for the exclusive use one particular group I make the following points.
• The “incidental skate space” (street terrain) can be multi use as non-skaters can use it as seats when skaters are not using it.
• A dual depth bowl would be more inclusive, as many user groups would be catered for as detailed below.

Volume User Group Demographics observed at other skate parks

Street Terrain
Skateboarders 12-16 years

Bowl
Skateboarders 12-16 years
Scooter riders 8-16 years
BMX riders 14-25 years
Mature age skateboarders 35-50 years (Unofficial supervision)
Family groups of skaters / scooter riders (parents and young children participating together - Unofficial supervision)
Roller skaters & bladders

Other points for Council to consider in favour of including a bowl in the design.
• To maximize participation and longevity of the facility a dual depth bowl with a “waterfall” should be included in the “skateable infrastructure” area to complement the street terrain in the “incidental skate space” areas. Other skate bowls in Victoria are continuing to be well patronised many years after construction. These include Fitzroy (early 1990’s), Frankston (2006), Newport (2006), etc.
• The deeper section of the dual depth bowl should be at least 2.2 metres deep and preferably 3.3 metres, to ensure as many user groups as possible are catered for.
• A dual depth “waterfall” bowl also caters for beginners.
• A bowl would give street skaters something to progress to.
• Council would not like to build a facility that skaters became bored with. This has been the case with some street style only skate parks in Melbourne in recent years.

Yours sincerely,[/i]

#28

Sent the following (same story, different words, plus a bit about noise and DSE):

To: Port Phillip Councillors and Council Officers

Dear Sirs,

Re: Proposed St Kilda Skate Park.

Please include in the plans for the Marina Reserve skating area a Skate bowl.

I believe that a skate bowl will be a vital feature that will promote non-exclusive usage of the coastal area for the following reasons:

  1.     Street Terrain Skate Parks that could be perceived as being are not generally all inclusive, and mostly used by 12 – 16 year olds.
    
  2.     Bowls used by much wider age groups ( ie 10 – 55 ), and more types of users, ie skate, scooter, bmx, roller blade.
    
  3.     More users means more surveillance, and better security.
    
  4.     A bowl is consistent with “coastal” activities. 
    

Skate parks have been successful in providing good social and recreational outcomes in many coastal foreshore locations including; Geelong, Lorne, Maroubra, Bondi, Cairns and Venice Beach USA.

  1. Board sports – skating bowl, or riding waves are similar.

  2. Providing a world class skate facility including a bowl, which will attract local and international visitors is consistent with the DSE Coastal Spaces Recommendations (2006), which notes that “Tourism in coastal areas plays an important role in Victoria’s local, regional and state economies”

Other reason for including a skate bowl are:

  1. A bowl provides significantly more challenges than a few concrete blocks or stairs, and encourages greater levels of activity and fitness from users of many ages, and will divert active skaters away from more passive uses of the area.

  2.     Mixing active skaters using “street terrain” with pedestrians exposes both to risk of collision and possible injury.
    

8 ) A bowl should be quieter than street terrain (ie less noise from “board slap”) with noise being be directed up by the bowl.
(see case studies spausa.org/noise-skateparks.html)

  1. Having a facility that attracts active participation from wider ranges of age groups users can have a positive benefit in discouraging anti-social behaviour.

  2.   More users from a wider range of age groups means more surveillance, better security, and positive social interaction   for both the local community and visitors.
    

Regards

#29

Next step, message from St Kilda Council…

Council will consider a report on the submissions received to the advertising of the draft Marina Reserve Masterplan at its meeting on Monday 9 August 2010. The meeting will be held at the South Melbourne Town Hall, Bank Street South Melbourne commencing at 6pm.

I expect the anti skate-park lobby will be there in big numbers.

Those that lodged submissions will have details of how to particpate in the meeting.

#30

Folks,

the submissions to council are in - the pro skate submissions out number the anti skate submissions 10 to 1! If you suffer from insomnia a summary of the submissions can be found here,
portphillip.vic.gov.au/defau … d__doc.pdf

this gem stood out-
Skate parks attract people who behave badly

You know who you are!

Next round at council is this coming Monday night, South Melbourne town hall, Bank St, 6pm start. My understanding is that the council will make a decision at this meeting on proceeding, or not, with the skate park component of the redevelopment.

#31

Great work guys,

I am away all of this week in NZ so I am going to miss the meeting so good luck I wish I could be there

#32

I have my Powerpoint presentation ready. I even have a photo of the State Planning Minister Justin Madden riding a skateboard at the Lorne Foreshore bowl. If that doesn’t work nothing will.

#33

Thanks to everyone that made a submission. I counted 99 submissions from MOSS on the council agenda at last nights council meeting. I also presented a power point to help council with state government approval as Dept of Sustainability require any new foreshore development to be coastal dependent. One of my slides included Minister Justin Madden riding a skateboard at the Lorne skatepark opening. Click this…
surfcoast.vic.gov.au/Communi … ll_3_4.pdf

The next step is for councillors to vote to seek state government approval. This could happen at the meeting on 13/9/10.

#34

how about all you old geezers let the kids have what they want. they dont need another crap designed bowl that is filled with skooters. give them a decent street section where they can progress and gain board control. When they want to step it up they can go to one of the many other crap bowls in victoria.

#35

Hey Wedge ever thought of moving to Sydney :question: Nick leave them alone will you

#36

Folks,

the draft master plan presented to the council now includes a multi transitioned bowl, check the plan here

portphillip.vic.gov.au/defau … Sketch.pdf

Council informs - The next step is to update the Marina Reserve Masterplan to reflect the Council’s resolution and to then provide for a further period of community review of the revised Marina Reserve Masterplan. We will contact you when the masterplan is available for further comment. As this stage, it is anticipated that the revised masterplan will be available next Monday 20 September 2010.

Cheers

#37

Fantastic!!!

Thats good news, lets hope it gets built properly so its good to roll.

#38

i just heard that approval has finally been given!!!
i dont know any other details, does anybody else know anything?
cheeers Paul

#39

Just in…

I am writing to you as you have either lodged a submission on the Marina Reserve Masterplan in 2010 or are on Council’s data base of interested persons with regard to the development of the Marina Reserve Masterplan.

The Minister for Environment and Climate Change has approved an amendment to the 8 March 2011 Coastal Management Act 1985 (CMA) consent that in effect approves the October 2011 Masterplan with some additional features.

The amendment reinstates the skateable area of 750m2 (instead of 500m2) and includes the semi-enclosed skate pocket of 70m2 with a depth of 2.1metres. In addition the plan will include improvements to the BBQ area including two tables with seating and additional landscaping to provide shade, inclusion of play equipment within the vicinity of the BBQ area and an additional 300m2 garden bed area to separate the active and passive recreational areas.

Council is very pleased with the Minister’s decision and now looks forward to implementing the masterplan.

The next steps are to develop the detailed design and operation plan. Council will facilitate a “Friends of Marina Reserve” for all those interested in joining in and helping the project develop. Council will consider a report on the amended consent and next steps at its meeting of the 27 June 2010.

Please visit the Council’s website for further information at haveyoursayatportphillip.net.au/ … e-st-kilda

Should you have any questions please feel free to contact Ms Anita Lange on 92096815.

We will continue to advise you of any future developments.

Please advise if you wish to be removed from this data base.

Cr Rachel Powning
Mayor
City of Port Phillip

#40

Yep, Bernie just got that myself!
Sounds like a goer at last!!!